If I Ask For Whiskey On My Deathbed Please Just Give It To Me
Alcohol is no longer part of my life. I don’t miss it, and I have no intention of ever touching the stuff again. When I left Thamkrabok temple almost 6 years ago I was convinced my addiction had ended, and I still feel exactly the same way today. Some might say that I’m being overly confident, but it is just the way I feel.
The Founder of Alcoholics Anonymous Asked for Whiskey on His Death Bed
In the biography My Name Is Bill Susan Cheever reveals how the founder of Alcoholics Anonymous asked for alcohol shortly before his death. At the time he was losing his battle against chronic emphysema and only had days to live. It is reported the he asked for whisky on four separate occasions, but it was never given to him. It appears that protecting the legacy of the man who founded Alcoholics Anonymous was more important than comfort during his last hours. Bill Wilson’s requests for whiskey were recorded in the notes by the nurse taking care of him.
I personally find it a bit deplorable that Bill W. was not given alcohol when he requested it. I have experience working as a nurse in palliative care, and I have seen how tough the process of dying can be. People can be terrified so anything that can give them some comfort is welcome. The only reason that I can see why Bill W. was denied his dying request was an attempt to protect his image and the image of the program he created. These are not good justifications in my mind. He had already made it to the end of his life so what difference did it make if he drank again? It wasn’t like he was going to go on a drunken rampage or damage his liver. It just bothers me that this man who had helped so many was denied some final comfort and for what?
If I Ask For Whiskey on My Deathbed Please Give It to Me
I have no plans to ask for whiskey on my deathbed, but if I do it should be given to me. I intend to leave this world completely sober because I want to fully observe the process – even if it is only blinking out into nothingness. The reality is though, that we have no idea how we are going to react to dying until we are facing it. Ram Dass talks about this in the documentary Fierce Grace . He devoted decades to spiritual training but he still felt overwhelmed when faced with own death – this was when he was having his stroke. Dying is not an easy thing.
Update: I am so suprised that people continue to find this post because it seems like such a long time since I wrote it. Thank you to everyone who has engaged with it. I haven’t replied much to recent comments because I’m no longer sure what to say, but you guys are doing a fantastic job filling in for me. I probably wouldn’t write this post at this stage in my life, but I’m glad I did. Please do check out my more recent posts.
Very good point, Paul. I have to agree with you here. I also had never heard this story; it’s quite sad.
Hi Lynne, it is a bit sad. I wouldn’t have thought any less of him for drinking on his death bed. Dying can be a tough business and we don’t know how we are going to react until it happens.
That article and most likely the book is misleading. Bill Wilson’s emphysema had periodically deprived his brain cells of oxygen. He was on numerous meds when on his deathbed. The phenomenon of craving alcohol is normal for alcoholics, especially those in Wilson’s state of mind. With over 2 million active members, AA’s numbers speak well of it’s successful approach in dealing with the disease of alcolholism. Did any legitimate critic give this book a positive review?
Hi Mike, I’m not swayed much by your argument that Bill asked for whiskey because of his emphysema. I understand why you might feel that his image needs protecting, but it is a bit of a leap. I could be wrong but when people are so hypoxic that affects their judgment they struggle to even manage sips of water. Do you also believe that his emphysema is the reason for why he took LSD during the sixties?
This book was written by an AA member, and the portrayal is generally flattering. Some AA members seem to have liked the book, and some didn’t – you can do the research for yourself if you’re interested. I have no idea what you mean by ‘legitimate critic’ – do you mean critics that believe what you believe?
I greatly Bill W. and I don’t believe that his desire for whiskey on his deathbed says much about the effectiveness of AA. He was a fallible human being just like everyone else.
Well said friend
Sorry Paul, even though you may be a writer & supposedly “sover”, you’re opinion is just that, an opinion & pretty useless unless you’re looking to be an ass. You can have your drink, I’ll stay sober thank you!!! Please, find other topics to write about, you’re not welcome to write about Bill, Bob or anyone else recovery, or lack there of like your own.
Thanks for sharing that
Bill Wison was a monster hell bend on mind control of others for self aggrandizement.
Wow! I can’t believe the negativity of your comment! You sound sick yourself! One of Time magazines top most influential 20 people in the 20th century and you think he was just a control freak. I feel sorry for you. When asked what was the greatest accomplishment of the 2oth century was even Henry Kissinger answered Alcoholics Anonymous. He was a genius. Thomas Edison tested him and then offered him a job! Do your homework Pamela. Start by reading all 3 biographies.
I agree
You are obviously wrong. Why not keep your deranged comments to yourself
Yeah and I’m sure YOU’RE a saint who has done nothing but saint-like things your whole sainty life right? Lol How many millions of people have (you) helped to a way of life worth living with freedom from the bondage of picking up another drink? Truly though… do you realllly think that you have room to judge? Just saying… its something to think about.
You are insane. But that means you are like 80% of AA members. Welcome home!
Are you joking? If you are not, can you verify what you’ve just said? (It’s hell-bent, by the way).
You’re out of your mind. You probably think Dr. Salk was a monster also.
That was a false story. I’m so sorry you printed such a thing !!!!!!! Never happened.
Well said. Many think that the phenomenon of craving I’d only present after the alcoholic has started drinking. We now know different. But many choose to hang on to a misinterpretation of Silkworth’s intro. You nailed it.
You are talking absolute rubbish I’ve read his nurses notes too.
And as I write AA has a 98% fail rate ….prove me wrong.
i believe that aa has such a high rate of failure because people just arent ready to put in the work that they need to because addiction is a subtle and astute adversary to the will of the addict. it does work for most people. its kinda like these new vaccines they work 90% of the time 20% of the time. do what helps you. leav the rest. we are all individuals needing individual treatment. may we all find our way.
Studies have shown that AA is no more effective than no treatment at all. I was a self destructive drunk for 20+ years. Then I found better things to do. As for Bill W. he tried to help folks quit drinking. If he wanted a deathbed drink think of it as farewell to an old adversary.
I’m a psych student with special interest in Abnormal Psychology (spec. addiction, trauma, and depression) and I’m alarmed by the comments sections here. After reading 8 comments I decided to respond since this page seems to be getting a lot of views. Some facts for those who may be dismayed by what they’ve read here:
1. AA has NOT been shown to be as effective as no treatment. There is a lot of debate around whether or not AA (and similar programs) produces better results than one-on-one drug counseling and/or Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. Keep in mind that most of these studies are abysmally small and unorthodox. As one such study states,
“This study has a number of limitations in addition to those noted
above. Reductions in substance use cannot be definitively attributed to treatment in the absence of a true control group.” [Morgan, Blanchard, et al. 2001]
2. Bill undoubtedly did LSD which he recommended for others, like himself, who had trouble coming to a spiritual experience naturally. I am a proponent of drug therapy for addiction. However, I’d be lying if I said I’ve witnessed a single addict maintain their sobriety after taking hallucinogens as a “cure all”. Addiction is partially cultural (nurture) and partially genetic (nature). While drugs can help, no one can change their genetic makeup by taking a nonradioactive substance. At the end of the day, you should only be using drug therapy to treat addiction after you’ve done a ton of research and consulted your psych. In other words, don’t take LSD “because Bill did it”. That’s not a plan.
3. The fact of Bill Wilson’s last days are apropos of nothing. Everyone’s bio/psycho/genetic/chemical makeup is radically unique. Societal norms often obfuscate this fact, which is fine until people start making one example into the “model”. Bill was a guy who did a thing. Do not base your life off the foibles and virtues of one man.
4. I really only wanted to correct the erroneous claims about AA’s ineffectiveness. Wildly ignorant. Please, do your own research. Just type “Efficacy of AA in addiction treatment” into Google Scholar. Enjoy.
Maybe because the courts are sending people who don’t want to be there? Maybe because they have gained knowledge in a rehab and think knowledge is the solution? (We know for a real alcoholic knowledge will avail nothing)
Lies
I agree with you.
it takes humility and courage to admit you want/crave a drink on your deathbed…that he didn’t speaks volumes.
Well said Paul
Interesting comment
I’m from Akron, Ohio and did a college paper in college on my name is Bill. I know that a doctor and a nun at St. Thomas Hospital use to help dry out alcoholics by sneaking them into unoccupied rooms. This too is part of the beginning of AA that most people don’t know. Does it change what was accomplished because of their manipulation of paperwork. Before AA the nun would hand the men, a coin and tell them to call her if they needed a drink. does that make the coin less valuable since it was someone else’s idea? I work in a nursing facility, and I see behaviors that are totally different from the way they lived for 80 yrs. I give comfort anyway i can, without judging the person. In the end if they want a bologna sandwich, but are on a puree diet, let them have it. my vote is let him have the whiskey.
Bill Wilson’s body was so Cancer ridden that he was being given massive amounts of morphine, was hallucinating and babbling incoherently. What he may or may not have uttered should be considered in recognition of his almost complete mental deterioration. Alcoholism is fatal, progressive and incurable. Therefore, everyone who is an alcoholic has, by definition, a deep-rooted often unconscious wish to re-experience the feeling of intoxication. If, hours away from death, in his drug-induced state he murmurs something to the effect of the wish for a drink is totally understandable. Why this comment continues to be belabored and what the point escapes me. I am alive because of what did with his life. That’s all I care to remember.
Bill Wilson didn’t have cancer.
Thank you
Agreed!!!! I relapsed myself when I was prescribed pain medications. It’s obvious the craving was setoff in Bill Wilson in his final hours. This is a true testament to Dr. Silkworth’ work about the allergy and nothing more.
Alcoholism is fatal.
He didn’t die from alcoholism. He was abstinent, for God’s sake!
But anyone who has experienced the release of a drink might well request one on compassionate grounds while actually dying, which and I are not able to relate to, for obvious reasons.
What I find so sad and unempathetic about AA is how they endorse treating someone who was focused enough to abstain from alcohol for __ years is treated like he is a common newcomer.
It’s called harm reduction.
To die having some comfort with morphine or opiates is no different than having had used some alcohol. I think it is sad that at his most terrifying and painful hour it was denied to him to protect the AA legacy. It was a request for comfort not to back pedal on inebriation, huge difference.
Paul, I think the point you document about Bill Wilson’s death bed request shows that for many people the fight against alcohol addiction is a lifelong battle. It’s a very interesting story and like Lynne one I’d never heard before.
I’d have given him the bottle and asked if he wanted a cigarette as well.
I don’t see how it would have done him any harm, if that’s what he wanted.
Your story is a lie !!!!
Does anyone who denied the request? If it was the nurse who made the notes, it’s understandable. Nurses have denied many of my requests during various hospitalizations. They are not all angels of mercy.
Honestly, I would have given it to him
Me too. I have been sober for a while. A similar story has been told about one of the founding members of my local group. Sober for almost 40 years and the “Godfather” of the group, sponsoring hundreds over the years, he asked for a drink on his deathbed. The 4 men in his room at the time, all sponsees, told him they loved him and would stay with him, but they would not give him a drink. One of them told me he would have if the other 3 men weren’t there. I hope I die sober, but I also hope I do so without begging for a drink. I am grateful for Bill Wilson and his life. And for Lois staying with him.
Oh hell yeah – 1 bottle and 1 pack please.
I agree with you Martin. Bill accomplished a lot by helping others. Why not grant a man his final request?
Agree not one is going on a bender on his deathbed
What you read in print and what actually happened are sometimes 2 different things ,Wilson may have had whisky who knows
It could be Ronnie – I wouldn’t think any less of him for it.
I think there are a few things you’re missing, Paul. Maybe this is just one of those knee-jerk, online articles that aren’t really thought out. Maybe you really thought about it, and these are the conclusions you’ve made. Regardless, you certainly seem absolute in your thinking that the nurse should’ve given Bill whiskey.
First, is your assertion that “It appears that protecting the legacy of the man who founded Alcoholics Anonymous was more important than comfort during his last hours.”
Huh?
She was a nurse. Perhaps she knew a little something about the Hippocratic Oath. Dying of emphysema is a messy affair. It’s a terrible way to die. What would alcohol have done to him in last days?
You claim that it would have comforted him. How do you know that? Because he asked for it? Hell, if alcohol would’ve comforted him in his dying days, imagine the joy he would’ve experienced had she shot him up with an 8-ball of coke, invited a couple of hookers into the room, and slipped him a tab of acid!
No. Bill was an alcoholic. Maybe he was in a state of delusion. Maybe he wasn’t. But he definitely knew that it was a progressive disease. Perhaps the nurse knew that too, and I bet she knew that you don’t give a man whiskey on his death bed and call it “comfort care”.
Alcoholism is a progressive disease. Guess what? So is emphysema. She refused his request because it’s progressive? Progress towards what, exactly? The man is about to die anyway. My father died of emphysema and I would not have denied him anything that gave him a moment of relief.
Your story is a lie !!!!
Give it a rest Judi. This is not a court of Law. It is a discussion among “mostly” adults. Join the conversation if you have evidence to support your claim, or – like I suggested, give it a rest. What do you want caregivers to do for you on your deathbed? Shall they comply with your ‘last wishes,’ or decide for you what is best? Interesting conundrum, but one many of us will face – on both sides of the blanket.
Judy, he was a man….not a God/Messiah. Lower your expectations of him and people. His life and death was a gift to everyone who were influenced positively by his program. Every person’s last minutes before death are between them and God.
Your comment is undocumented opinion……give us some facts.
Well, sign me up for the 8-ball of coke, some acid and the hookers on my deathbed! I have never had any of those but it sounds like a much better thing than dying of cancer and/or emphysema (which both of my parents died of btw.). I can’t believe how judgy everyone on this thread is being. Why is it your business what a man asked for on his deathbed (or didn’t, I don’t care, its an interesting metaphor in my mind) and Judy K…please stop, I don’t know what is wrong with you, but repeating the same thing over and over again is a sign of mental illness.
doesnt sound so far fetched, if you do research.he actually got the idea of the 12stepprogram while on 4c1d. medicine VS dr4g5.
People who are dying should be given coke and hookers if they want it. They’re past the point of making good decisions based on the future.
Great article, Paul. I think flashes of spiritual insight are enormously difficult to convey, which is why organised religion can do so much harm as well as good. Personally I think AA is a little bit like organised religion in that respect.
I guess my question is, Why is this even a story? What is the motivation? How does this story do anything for anyone? Why is this important? I find it interesting that there are people who think they need to know the most intimate and private details of a persons life. Like Elvis dying in his bathroom with his pants around his ankles. I worry about such voyeurs. It is usually told as if this is to be the last thing we should remember them by or for. The nurse apparently had no concern for the Wilson family and patient confidentiality in disclosing this intimate detail (if it is even true.)
P.S. Bill Wilson’s drink of choice was Gin.
The first time I heard the story, I shared it with another alcoholic, as proof that you’re never completely free from the desire to drink. He responds, “That story can’t be true; he was a gin drinker.” But the story is documented fact, so just take it as a warning to all alcoholics.
Gross, Gin is the worst. I hope he asked for Whiskey instead.
It is a story because everything is a story. It’s what we do; we talk about things, think about them, roll them around in our noggins, and imagine what they might have to do with us: the fallibly human. I like the story because it questions compassion, and challenges image, and dogma. “He died sober”. That can be great. I’ve also known sober people who’s sobriety is an excuse to be selfish, they parade how much they help others yet it’s a mask because they are constantly taking (“receiving”). The point is it takes all kinds, in sobriety and the ‘normies’. Sober is way better when you learn to stop hurting others and yourself, and it’s really good when you actually help and inspire others. But that’s not the requirement. It’s a selfish program in that you are on a new road of production and not destruction. But we question, as we should. “This is fake!”. Why so insistant? Are you sure? “What’s the point of this story?”. What’s the point of any story, other than to learn from the potpourri of our thoughts and imaginations and ambition and denials clashing all the time. It’s something to do while you’re sober. haha.
Excellent comment – thank you for succinctly saying what I was also thinking.
I guess my question is; why are you commenting on a story you wanted to read, only to do a flip flop on it’s worthiness? It apparently had enough human interest material for you to choose it…… but then again you don’t like human interest stories, right? Seems you have read them all!
I always find it funny when people try to rationalize or minimize information like this. These same people will believe with absolute certainty that Bill had a spiritual awakening. He was hospitalized 3 times in a year with the DTs and was given belladonna {a hallucinogen} but people will believe he was visited by god. Bill was a serial cheater and carried on affairs for years. Bill also used LSD on a regular basis. I would think, for myself anyway, that if I was visited by god, any god, that I would have no problem walking the walk not just talking the talk.
Well said!
And maybe, the nurse was an alcoholic and lied about Bill asking for whisky? Why do we
spend so much time focusing on others lives? Don’t we have enough of our own issues to
deal with?
Where did you get the information about his infidelity? Can you verify it?
I have done a lot of research on AA and truly believe it is a cult. I watched AA take over my now ex-wife’s life and consume her for the wrong reasons.
Agreed, AA has actually been stated as a cult in the dictionary (unless they finally cleaned that up). I’ve tried AA several times wanting more than ever to be clean and sober. It didn’t work, it never worked. The fact that the steps constantly reminds you of your wrongdoings to prevent use, doesn’t work. Shame is counterproductive it doesn’t help it hinders recovery. The fact that the steps asks you to keep trying to make amends is also unhealthy in my opinion. People are who/how they are and react to the actions of an alcoholic in that exact fashion. Will they ever forgive you? Even after 20yrs of sobriety? What if they don’t? And it’s the 1 approval that you need/want? The latter will certainly fuel a relapse. Lastly, it is a “spiritual” prog and while I understand that’s diff from religion a door knob is a poor substitute for spirituality. That being said, what about atheists? Do they not deserve recovery? Not by way of AA I suppose. I certainly don’t knock AA; it has saved many lives. But again just my opinion even a door knob w 12 rules would’ve saved those who were/are ready. Clearly. When I WAS finally ready, I just wanted to find/keep the right reasons to stop and what to do w recovery once achieved (that’s the way part). I did exactly that through motivation and empowerment without programs, steps, or meetings. Like Bill W said “it’s just the way I feel.” I now help others do the same in a non-conventional way. AA doesn’t teach you what to do with your sobriety just tells you to stay sober, through sponsors, in a way that worked for them but we all learn different therefore we all sober different which is why I believe AA fails has failed many.
Mimi the first paragraph on page 58 will tell you and others why you couldn’t get sober. You have to be able to understand and admit powerlessness and hopelessness and that your life is unmanageable because you cannot manage the decision as to whether you are going to drink or not.
You can’t overcome what your mind created with the mind that created it.
Definitely food for thought . Thank you for sharing this. Have a WONDERFUL DAY.
Welllll..AA PROGRAM cult or not has saved my life numerous times ..I’m an alcoholic I use to kid around with guys at the bar as did others “functioning alcoholics” then became disfuntional many of us did.
At age 69 am still relapsing longest period of sobriety 7 months at a time twice then shorter periods and shorter periods and still am relapsing. Betty Ford and other rehabs didn’t help AA if I go to the meetings helps me stay sober even if it is short while..hey am not drinking today.7 days today ,tomorrow who knows.
39 years sober give the man a break being human is not easy for an alcoholic
It is a decease that will kill you more often than Cancer. People feel for Cancer patients but us alcoholics are just filthy drunks doesn’t matter if you are Winston Churchill or Fidel Castro alcohol is cunning.
So next time you see that bum under the bridge instead of shaking your head prey for him after all he is human like Bill was.
So, the guy under the bridge is legal “prey”? Don’t think you “pray” very much.
Did pray before you made Gerardo your prey?
As an active AA member, I can honestly say that AA saved my life. I was a very bad person before I saw clarity and quit the sauce. I had to be around like minded sick people. At my first meeting i realised I was not alone. Those members helped me so much just by sharing their life experiences. I done and still do the same to this day. The program has shown me who I was and how I could change to be a better person who is willing to help others…no matter their problem. To become selfless, not to judge or be critical of others. Not to be drawn into pointless debates. Why? Resentments are an alcoholics worse nightmare. Resentment means death to the Alkie. Why? It justifies them picking up that first drink and then what? A slow agonising death. Alcoholism is an illness, not a weakness. Perhaps Bill was more than ill.
I am in AA 45 years. Came in 21 yrs old. Alcoholism is not about alcohol it is about the soul. It is about God. God can do anything and He healed me of a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body.I will be eternally grateful. He could, I could not.
Thank you Helen.
No one has mentioned that the Bible states..”give strong drink to those who are perishing”.. There are many verses that speak against the use of alcohol but word “wine” in the Aramaic and Hebrew has many different meanings, such as ‘wine with alcohol-and wine without alcohol etc But everywhere the word “wine” is mentioned in the Bible, the English translation has not made this distinction, leading the reader to assume that every “wine” in the Bible is an alcoholic
beverage but this is not so. Needless to say, giving Bill a “strong drink” would have been a permitted thing to do according to the Bible.
Bill Wilson demanded whiskey on his deathbed because he worshiped Satan and denied Christ even though he had the finest Catholic education available. Father Dowling was his sponsor for 20 years and Archbishop Fulton Sheen spent at least one year counseling Wilson. He loved himself. Pure and simple. His ego, pride, anger, greed, gluttony, lust, envy and sloth destroyed him. That’s the difference between Akron and New York AA. Jesus was the solution.
Please don’t site Catholic education as something fine, Clarence. All the negative qualities you recite have now been proved to belong and be practiced by CATHOLIC CLERGY. Grow up!
You claim to be a person of God, and yet you’re not very well versed in the holy book. So how about taking a look at Proverbs 31:6 – Give strong drink to he who is dying, and wine to he who is of heavy heart.
Just another reason why religious people are heavily deluded and hypocritical. You claim to be religious, and yet, you speak anti-religiously, against the word of God. To use your own analogy, you’re a satan worshipper.
If Clarence or any person said that of a person who left such a legacy of goodness behind, I would have to question his motivation. It is so easy to point out or make up the failings of another.
We are all human, if we look into our own hearts there will always be flaws, always those things we wished we had done better, and those we wish we had never done, but such is the nature of humanity.
As soon as a person embarks on any quest that has to do with goodness and service to others, humanity seems to demand that he be without imperfections or warts of any kind.
As soon as they are disclosed it invites distraction from the message that is being delivered.
More goodness has been destroyed by this God Like demand for perfection on anyone who is moved with compassion for his fellow man.
“Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.”
You must be a very pure soul Mr. Snyder. You are able to see so clearly the the splinter in someone else’s eye,…….that rafter in yours makes you very myopic.
I don’t agree giving him the poison that was attempting to kill him when he wasn’t dying of a chronic neurobiological disease. However, if someone is suffering, there is medication you could give them to help relieve symptoms.
My old Great aunt at 96 complained of numerous aches and pains that prevented her from being able to sleep the night through. I suggested to her (A life long Teetotaler) that perhaps a hot toddy of sugar, water, Lemon and whiskey taken at night might aid her in gaining the rest that she so desperately need. She replied “oh no I couldn’t do that, I might become addicted ”
I gently told her that at her age she did not have time to Drink herself to Death. She perished a few months after having not gained a full night’s restful sleep. I hope that now she is resting in Peace; and sobriety or not as the case might be. I wonder if inside the pearly gates they have Bars? 🙂
I’ve never had a drop of alcohol in my life, so I certainly wouldn’t ask for it on my deathbed. Recovering alcoholics constantly strive for the same mindset. There is freedom in being independent.
I understand why the nurse denied him whiskey.
1) There are plenty of other palliative care options besides whiskey;
2) A few hours of palliative comfort for the eternally-recovering alcoholic is not as important as: A) a clear conscience for the nurse nurse who has plenty of years of life ahead of her;
B) In his autopsy, how would it have looked if he had whiskey in his system? That would have tainted the entire AA mission, philosophy & organization.
She didn’t gave him booze because she knew that one day or the other this mystry would be in public domain and if any recovering alcoholic ever read this he will definitely go to the alcohol the very next minute .
You are extremely correct the entire mission would be spoiled in few seconds… The nurse did well but she would have not disclosed this to anyone else…
Everyone’s entitled to an opinion,mane it might as well be mine.
I’ve learned a lot reading here, if I can believe it all.
AA has been salvation from alcohol for a lot of people.
But too many stop there and compensate by smoking excessively,
and indulging other bad habits. We need to beyond defining ourselves by what are are not or by what we once were.
Okay if you call alcoholism a disease, but it can’t be an acceptable
excuse for otherwise inappropriate behavior.
Nobody talked about synergistic poisons. Alcohol combined with other
depressants can be damaging or fatal. Could a request for alcohol in conjunction with opiates or other other downers really be about assisted self administered euthanasia (suicide). Is it okay to take the maximum amount of opiates if you are in NA?
I’d like to, some day, just walk off the stage with Jesus holding my hand.
But we shouldn’t be too presumtuous about what what the future holds.
And I know that pain can reach a level
where it’s almost impossible to think right or to pray.
“Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish,
and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.” Proverbs 31:6 KJV
C, Eb & G walk into a bar. The bartender points to the door and says,
‘We don’t serve minors.”
Interesting comments.
The more reading I do about bill the more I identify w the man.
Mistresses. LSD. Perhaps relapses
It’s messy. Life is messy.
The St Bill thing a bit overdone and feels overdone.
Time and the truth will find it way to surface.
I’m betting he was more of a struggling man than Saint
Bill W was a man only a man and wouldn’t have wanted to be deified as so many have attempted to do. The third tradition states that the only requirement for membership in A/A is a desire to stop drinking. This I believe is to afford the drinker the opportunity to “live” and since Bill was on his deathbed he might of felt no further need for said desire. Just something to think, think, think about! LOL
The fact that Bill W wanted a drink on his deathbed speaks volume to the third tradition and the desire to stop drinking. This program is intended for those who want live and who want to live life on lifes terms. Very fitting ending for a humble man who exhibited all the human frailties and had those character defect on his deathbed but was relieved of his shortcomings via a caring nurse, maybe part of the “We” plan?
A fitting end for such a humble man! Bill W was a man, only a man, and not a god, and the realization of his human frailty was personified in his desire for a drink on his deathbed. The third tradition speaks of a desire to stop drinking and I believe this is to allow the drinker to “Live”. Bill being on his deathbed probably had no further desire to live and probably felt no further desire to not drink was necessary. Bill W was a man, a humble man, and I’m sure he would not have wanted to be deified as so many of alcoholics want to make him. Hmm something to think, think, think about! LOL
When you see death infront of you your principles ethics and morals are less likely to keep following you.
It’s a program about how to live a happy and joyful life it’s not about alcohol only . Assuming that these allegations on him are true he saw his death near him and paralelly he had no time left with him so he demanded for alcohol I don’t think anything was wrong in this. I m sober for 3 years and I hate this phrase
“You get life for once”
It triggers me from different aspects if death is final than why to die sober ??
He had already accomplished his mission saved lacs of lives his job was over who knows he is not drinking upstairs??
On earth he was a god for millions of people like me
He will always remain sober in my heart.
Rest in peace Mr. Bill w….
Hi Paul. Your article is really interesting and more interesting still is the comments section. Thank you for it. I’ve been sober in AA for 34 years and at this stage it is pretty hard to argue with people who call it a cult. And you see it so clearly in the comments on your article.
There are people who believe Bill’s book Alcoholics Anonymous is god-breathed scripture and they act accordingly. Fanatical, blind, savage to people who don’t agree with them, and hyper defensive about errors or what could even be called lies in the book. why do people believe that a guy 3 years clean – along with a committee of lunatic newcomers – would have written a book that was perfect in every aspect? It is crazy.
How about this: Bill Wilson founded a substantial social movement based on an application of spiritual principles that effectively bring about a psychic housecleaning (confession, amends, prayer, helping others)… and it has helped a lot of people.
He was also a power freak, and egomaniac, a womanizer who struggled with depression, experimented with acid, and asked for whiskey on his death bed. So what? I don’t see what is so bad. Compare to King David or Saint Peter or whoever… they all fuck up lol, it is part of the whole “life” gig.
Balance out the equation and you have a great man in my opinion. I don’t know why people have to be so black and white about it. Actually I do know why… it’s a cult.
But a benign cult I’ll never fully abandon it but I will call it on it’s bullshit (which means I’m not in the middle of the herd but that’s fine too).
Hi Mark.
I’m doing a bit of writing on Bill Wilson. Your comment really made me think.
Would you be willing to talk to me further about your experiences with AA and thoughts on Bill?
Thanks
Bill was not unwell when he said “if i ask for whisky on my deathbed please just give it to me”
I decided to have a drug free childbirth. I was lucky to be able to have a professional doula assist me. She met with me and my husband and guided us through all the possibilities that could occur and helped us create a plan.
One of the things that she told me was that I might have a moment, in active labor, where I felt like I was going to die. She counseled me that that would be close to the time my baby would be born.
And that is exactly what happened. I made it through all the labor without intervention of any kind. However in those last moments, three more pushes, before my son was born I called for drugs.
Luckily I had my doula and my husband to remind me of our plan and reassure me that I was about to hold my baby in my arms. And gratefully this was true. It was also true that it was too late for drugs.
But what this experience tells me is that my rationale thinking mind and my fearful instinct driven mind are completely different.
I really didn’t want the drugs I was afraid of the pain and lack of control of my body.
I have found that for me that fear is a powerful force in my obsessive mind. That the only true relief I can get from fear is to ask for help from God, a God of my own understanding.
I’m not sure I would want to have someone give me whisky on my deathbed if I had spent a lifetime living sober because I identify as an alcoholic. I am not opposed to other forms of meditation if there is pain and anxiousness which is often the case at the end of life.
Clearly this is a very important conversation to have with our loved ones so they know what our wishes are at the end.
As a member of AA, as is my sister, I have a living will. I intend to enter the Kingdom of Heaven sober. The 12 step program created by Bill Wilson & Dr. Bob, has been used by many types of addictions, with much success since 1937. Judge not, until you are judged. He has helped millions of suffering people, all over the world.
Great story. Bill went out sober. If he didnt guess dr bob would of been furst at bat.
So Susan Cheever took it upon herself to deny the dying mans wish, yet tarnish his image?
Hi Jim, as far as I know, Susan Cheever is just the writer who investigated the story and found the entries in his medical/nursing notes.
Paul,
you are a badass mofo. I wanna hang out with you bro. Great read. I think you’ve stated your opinion well. I, for one, share your opinion. Opinion gets a bad rap in AA. Especially from the Alcoholics that hold the strongest opinions. Lest we forget that ALL AA literature is also opinion. We even have a chapter in the big book called “The Doctor’s Opinion”. We can claim truth all day long… but truth is subjective and always formed by the amount of data and information we have on a given subject at an given time. Learn more, or have a new experience and chances are, ones truth will adapt. Most bleeding deacons in AA read the literature as dogmatic… it most definitely is not (IMO). In AA we share “in a general way, what is was like, what happened, and what it’s like now”…and although the facts of the events contained in that formula are cemented in history, my perception of them has changed with every day, month, and year I acquire from my last drink. My rear view mirror gets larger and larger and my understanding of my Alcoholism and my “outside issues” continues to grow, Just as Bill W’s approach to AA, mental health, and his view on AA continued to grow and change throughout his life. The sad reality that I’ve experienced in my recovery is that the messages between the mental health community and the recovery community are usually at odds. The Mental heath community says “you cant treat the alcoholism/addiction issue unless you treat the underlying mental heath issue… and then the Recovery community claims that you can’t treat the mental health issue until you treat the Alcoholism/addiction issue. It sucks because in my experience (yes, just an opinion) is that mental health issues and Alcoholism don’t exist in separate boxes in your body. They are all in there attached and metastasized and feeding off each other. The biggest transformations and success stories I’ve seen are when a holistic approach is taken. The book say “self knowledge avails us nothing”… well, no… self knowledge avails us self knowledge. It’s what step 4 and 10 are literally supposed to help us glean. It’s about what we do with the self knowledge acquired through 12 step work, therapy, xrays, cat scans, and blood tests. How do we take contrary action about the thing we have learned about ourselves that keep us in the bitter morass of self pity, pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization, or pain, or psychosis, or depression.
Bill was a firm believer in science. That why he sought out Dr.’s for validating his books. If he were alive today, I’d bet dollars to donuts that he would be many AA’s primary purpose more inclusive and the broad highway even broader. While science hasn’t discovered a cure for alcoholism and may never do so, what science has done is detect a genetic marker that pre-disposes a person towards alcoholism and addiction. Those marker correlate to a shortage in dopamine receptors in the brain… creating a constant shortage and craving for the naturally occurring Dopamine. The chemical excreted glands in the brain’s limbic system. The limbic system is responsible for most if not all emotions. If any of the glands that excrete serotonin, oxytocin, norepinephrine, produce too much… or not enough, then problems arise. Some can be changed with lifestyle changes (dietary, excercise, sobriety, sprituality, etc) and some of those glands need to be medically stimulated to produce more or less of what they’re kickin out. Everybody is different… so all that unique snoflake shit you bleading deacons like to berate new alcohics with… just stop. They very well may be unique little snowflakes. Thank god. What isn’t unique are the problems and feelings associated with the alcoholism/addictions. As my sponsor like to say “different wrenches for different nuts”. What works for one, may not work for another. The biggest thing I got from AA and continue to get is spirituality… which is a pretty big deal for an atheist like me. I seek god on a daily basis through prayer and meditation… and in devoting my life to service. That alone has addressed and erased much of the self hate, worthlessness and shame that I used to feel constantly. I have dignity and integrity now ( i never use to know what those words even met.) . I like me know… I’m comfortable in my own skin. I still haven’t found god but I am willing to seek. “C) god could and would if he were sought”. Guess what, I seem to get the same results and the strongest and most religious members I go to meetings with. AA is an invaluable tool and I cannot live without it… but it’s a big world and there’s a lot more information about the things that ail us. History and Science bring it all into focus.
Here’s a little thing that Bill wrote about dogma and inclusivity:
Bill W spoke at the General Service Conference held in New York City in April, 1965. The Conference theme was “Responsibility To Those We Serve.”
AA was thirty years old. Bill was 70 years old. It was a period of reflection for him. “We old-timers are a vanishing breed,” he said of the early members of AA. “The greater part of us have gone out into the sunset of this world.”
He expressed the hope that the disappearing early AAers had left the members of the day a heritage sufficient to their needs, one which could be “enlarged and enriched.”
Bill was preparing for the 30th Anniversary International Convention to be held later that year in July in Toronto. Much of the spirit of the Conference would also prevail at the Convention, where the theme would be, simply, “Responsibility,” and Bill would repeat much of this speech.
Bill looked back over the years; he did a bit of an inventory of AA’s history, “the better to reveal the areas in which we can improve ourselves.”
“Without much doubt, a million alcoholics have approached AA during the last thirty years,” he said. Estimating that “350,000 of us are now recovered from our malady” through the fellowship of AA, he continued, “So we can very soberly ask ourselves what became of the 600,000 who did not stay.”
No doubt some alcoholics “cannot be reached because they are not hurt enough, others because they are hurt too much. Many sufferers have mental and emotional complications that seem to foreclose their chances,” Bill acknowledged.
But what about all the others?
“How much and how often did we fail them?” he asked.
“Our very first concern should be with those sufferers that we are still unable to reach.”
He had some sense of the failings of the fellowship he had helped launch and which he still clearly revered. One of the themes for his talk was one he had broached before: a growing rigidity in AA.
He referred directly to a contingent within the fellowship which, often unwittingly, made it difficult for an increasingly large number of people to feel comfortable in the rooms of AA. “It is a historical fact,” he said, “that practically all groupings of men and women tend to become dogmatic. Their beliefs and practices harden and sometimes freeze. This is a natural and almost inevitable process.”
He discussed some of the ways that this rigidity could harm the fellowship.
“In no circumstances should we feel that Alcoholics Anonymous is the know-all and do-all of alcoholism,” Bill said, referring to the work of other organizations in the United States and Canada engaged in research, alcohol education and rehabilitation.
“Research has already come up with significant and helpful findings. And research will do far more.”
“Those engaged in education are carrying the message that alcoholism is an illness, that something can be done about it.”
Bill then talked about the growth of rehabilitation facilities in North America and the number of alcoholics treated by these agencies. “True, their approach is often different from our own,” he said.
“But what does that matter,” he asked, “when the greater part of them are or could be entirely willing to cooperate with AA?”
“Too often, I believe, we have deprecated and even derided these projects of our friends.”
“So we should very seriously ask ourselves how many alcoholics have gone on drinking simply because we have failed to cooperate in good spirit with all these other agencies whether they be good, bad or indifferent. Assuredly no alcoholic should go mad or die simply because he did not come straight to AA in the first place.”
Bill was of the view that hardened or frozen beliefs and practices were dangerous in AA. “Simply because we have convictions that work very well for us, it becomes quite easy to assume that we have all of the truth.”
“Whenever this brand of arrogance develops,” he warned, “we are sure to become aggressive. We demand agreement with us. We play God.”
“This isn’t good dogma. This is very bad dogma. It could be especially destructive for us of AA to indulge in this sort of thing.”
Bill defended the right of all AAers to have their own beliefs and to be able to freely express them.
“All people must necessarily rally to the call of their own particular convictions and we of AA are no exception.” Moreover, he continued, “all people should have the right to voice their convictions.”
Bill then returned to the subject of those who had come into AA but not stayed. “Newcomers are approaching us at the rate of tens of thousands yearly. They represent almost every belief and attitude imaginable.”
“We have atheists and agnostics,” he said. “We have people of nearly every race, culture and religion.”
And then Bill got to the heart of his message of responsibility.
In AA we are supposed to be bound together in the kinship of a universal suffering. Therefore the full liberty to practice any creed or principle or therapy should be a first consideration. Hence let us not pressure anyone with individual or even collective views. Let us instead accord to each other the respect that is due to every human being as he tries to make his way towards the light. Let us always try to be inclusive rather than exclusive. Let us remember that each alcoholic among us is a member of AA, so long as he or she so declares.
Towards the end of his address, Bill commented on how difficult it has been for AA to grow at important moments in its history. “Our fears and reluctances and rebellions have been extreme each time we have been faced with great turning points in this society,” he said.
“Let us never fear needed change,” he concluded. “Once a need becomes clearly apparent in an individual, a Group, or in AA as a whole, it has long since been found out that we cannot afford to sit still and look the other way.”
Back to my opinions, haha… Every day when I wake up, I ask my self one question… “how free do I want to be today?’. Some days I’m more free than others and its usually pretty clear why. I don’t believe that sobriety is a solid state because it’s definition is so infinite. What about the 12 step programs where abstinence is not the metric be which we measure success? Al-anon, Sex Addicts Anonymous, Over-eaters Anonymous… what is the metric by which they measure the successes and failures of their programs. A lack of unmanageability? How long they can go between watching porn? Are they paying bills instead of gambling or buying something the really want? Is that sober?
The definition of “relapse” is “to suffer deterioration aft a period of improvement.” Shit… I can honestly clam that every day. Usually I’m pretty quick to catch it and clean it up. progress not perfection… I catch my shitty behavior addictions are quickly accepted and messes I’ve made quickly cleaned up.
But I’m Immersed is AA. I go to meeting all around the world and I have an amazing life. Even when I think it sucks… I try to have gratitude for my reprieved hardships because ist is from them that I incure the most growth
Thanks for the diversion Paul. Keep doin what you’re doin pal. I hope to meet you someday.
… and for anyone that want to cuss me out for my blasphemy , I’d love to hear from you. Hell, call me if you’re bored… it’s covid… what the hell else do ya have to do?
BB +1-503-539-3908 ANYTIME!!!!
Those were the most humane, non judgmental and thought-provoking comments I’ve read in this forum. I don’t believe in a god or higher power and Steps 2, 3, 6 & 7 have little significance for me. The working steps, Steps 4, 5, 8 & 9, have helped me and I have been sober 5 years now without a single desire. I was told early on in AA to use what works for me. I alone choose, not some bleeding deacon. Bill W was no saint and never seemed to profess a need to be placed on a pedestal, and his fallibility is only a reminder that I am not perfect. I prefer Bill the man, not Bill the savior.
This is a well written beautiful piece and I applaud you for your resilience against the hatefulness from AA members. As someone who is starting a blogging career and my niche is breaking down the pedestal 12-step programs are held to; I have had some really nasty comments from people who have supposedly used spirituality to obtain and maintain their sobriety.
I knew it was coming because the reason I started my blog was the awful and cruel things I had seen from AA members towards people like me who chose a different path to recovery. They really don’t see how problematic and irresponsible their behavior is. AA will have a special place in my heart for it taught me and I know it has saved millions of lives and I would never negate the importance of the program. What I don’t agree with is the obsessive nature of the members and how defensive, angry and spiteful they act as they did here in your comment section. I don’t want to think of the addicts and alcoholics who have slipped through the cracks because of these members. If they were half as spiritual as they claim to be they couldn’t find the time or the need to be so unbelievably vile towards strangers that simply don’t agree with them.
My favorite was the gentlemen who told you that you weren’t allowed to write about Bill, Bob or AA! Lol They worship him and like you said he was a fallible human just like us. Another intriguing thing I found out a while ago is the Dr. Bob didn’t quite drinking until he made his amends. I think a lot of members have lost the spirit of what the program was even designed for to be honest.
Lol I love it. These reply’s are the exact reason I stopped going to meetings. Too many degenerates with something to prove.
I have a mountain of time in A.A., thus have experienced some very negative, self-defeating people along with some great human beings. Bill Wilson was my spiritual father, responsible for the recovery of millions of alcoholics. My God, he was dying, on morphine, no doubt in terrible pain both physical, spiritual and psychological. How can anyone expect rational behavior in a death-bed situation of terrible pain? He was sober for 36 years. He was the foundation for recovery from a sickness that plagued the world since the beginning of time. My God, let him rest in peace.
Amen
I admit I have not read much of the thread and pretty much skimmed the article because I think the main premise and question is the concern. I’m a REAL alcoholic as described in the Big Book. So was Bill. Are we helping a REAL alcoholic by giving him a drink at any phase or circumstance in his life? I would say absolutely not. I’d say give him a meeting instead. Give him someone to pray for him. Get his sponsor in there, call for his pastor. The idea of protecting AA and Bill’s legacy is primary to you Paul, but I think for anyone who has been a counselor or in the helping professions the immediate primary protection would be for the person themselves. I’m stunned that you or anyone else doesn’t think a REAL alcoholic would demand another drink and then yet another. Why is a drunken abusive rampage from a a death bed seem impossible to you? It seems like exactly what we would do. What REAL alcoholic EVER stops at one no matter the circumstances. Aren’t we famous for drinking in excess at the worst possible times with the worst possible effects. I was! Everything they taught us said that the first drink is what kills us. The Big Book teaches us that we come up with some insanely foolish rationale for taking that first drink. Our reason alone isn’t enough to keep us away. And then the adage we’ve all heard: one drink its too many and 1000 is not enough comes into play. If a REAL alcoholic like Bill or me could have just one drink even on our death bed I suspect we would have done it before and not needed this program to literally save our lives. Over and over we are taught in all the books and examples of that era that lasting comfort and peace only comes from our living Creator God and not the drink. Bill and Bob experienced that and so have I and many others as well. That is how this miraculous program started. The letter rom Carl Jung to Bill stated as much. Only through a profound spiritual experience can hopeless cases like ours be saved, according to the great psychiatrist. The program says “to thine own self be true”. The truth is Im a REAL alcoholic who can never ever drink safely even on my death bed. I hope to God those around me when I am dying will give me the opportunity to stay true to myself and call me to God in prayer rather than give me the treacherous short lasting fraud of alcohol.
So glad I am free from the filth of AA and no longer have to deal with the kind of people leaving these dangerous, vicious comments attacking Paul and cult-like defense of of the Bill W AA narrative.